Podcast: Inside Practice
Episode: Returning to Work After Maternity Leave
Host: Allison Perlman
Guest: Ali Katz
Allison Perlman (00:04):
Hi, everyone. I’m here today with Ali Katz, the managing partner at Hazelview Investments. Ali leads the firm capital partnership strategy, overseeing business development efforts across institutional consultant, family office, and private wealth channels. With more than 15 years of experience in the financial services industry, Ali has built expertise across multiple asset classes with a focus on business development, investor relations, and alternative investments.
Hi, Ali.
Ali Katz (00:32):
Hi, Allison. Thanks for having me.
Allison Perlman (00:34):
Thank you for coming. So today, we have a very interesting topic, which is returning to work after maternity leave. Both you and I have done it a couple of times, so let’s jump right into it. Great. Coming back from mat leave can be quite challenging, so I would like to know your biggest challenge coming back from maternity leave that you didn’t anticipate before you went out.
Ali Katz (01:04):
So my experience was a little bit unique because I came back right in the heart of COVID.
So I remember most of my mat leave was actually done. I didn’t have to go into the office while I was pregnant. And then obviously my mat leave was through the heart of COVID. I gave birth in December 2020. So I think for me, the biggest challenge was wrapping my head around going back to the office, because I had been out of office for so long. And I had actually started a new job and not at the firm that I’m at right now, but at a different firm not too long before COVID hit. So there was a lot of things going on in my mind in terms of, “Okay, this is kind of a relatively new role for me. I’m just getting back from mat leave. I have to go back into the office.” There were just a lot of… I was battling a lot of internal thoughts at the time. And I think just wrapping my head around the fact that people were going back. I’m in real estate, so people were expected to go back into the office relatively early.
But that, I think, was one of the bigger challenges. And then just grappling with the fact that you’ve been off for quite some time and then having to get back into the swing of things. And especially after your first kid, balancing the, “I really want to jump right back into it. I really want to do my best in my role.” But in the same token, there’s a lot going on at home and how are you balancing all those things? So I think that’s always the challenge. I’m sure that’s an answer that most people would give you, but that was a pretty tough part.
Allison Perlman (02:45):
So for you, it was going back into the office, physically actually going back into the office.
Ali Katz (02:50):
Physically, yes. Yeah.
Allison Perlman (02:50):
And starting a new job, and then balancing your new life as a mother with your workout and figuring out that balance and what that’s going to look like.
Ali Katz (03:02):
Yes.
Allison Perlman (03:02):
And, think that’s a great kickoff for my next question because there’s often assumption that when you come back, you just pick up where you left off.
But careers change, you change jobs, teams change, client relationships change, you change. And so what does it actually take to reestablish, or what did it take you to reestablish yourself, after the maternity leave?
Ali Katz (03:28):
Yeah. I mean, I think there’s no such thing as exiting your job or removing yourself from your job for that period of time, and thinking that everything’s gonna be smooth when you come back.
So I think really, giving yourself time, patience, compassion is really important. Then I also think that being in a supportive environment is really important as well. I know people who’ve had really good experiences after coming back from mat leave, and I also know people who’ve had pretty poor experiences, and it really depends on the culture at the office, and making sure that people are supported and people/women are given the time when they’re coming back from maternity leave.
Because it’s also, yes, you’ve been away from your job. You’ve also been in baby land for the last 12 months, so your brain has not worked in the same way that it was working prior to going on mat leave, and that takes an adjustment as well. So I think giving yourself a little bit of time, again, and that compassion for yourself is really important and turning to people that you work with who are providing you with that support in order to get yourself back to where you want to be.
Allison Perlman (04:40):
What did that support look like? Because you mentioned having support from your colleagues. What would be an example of a type of support that you’re referencing here, or a type of support you received when coming back from mat leave?
Ali Katz (04:52):
No, I think, especially when you have a one-year-old at home, often you lack sleep.
So I think people just, again, showing some patience with you if you’re having a little bit of a rough day because you had a rough night. I think that’s important. I really… What’s interesting to me, and I never thought about this before I had kids, but a woman mentor of mine had said, “Look around. If you’re looking at new job opportunities, look at the senior exec team. See if there are any women on that team, because they’ve had the same lived experiences that you’re having.” And so that helps provide that supported work environment. It’s harder to be supportive if you haven’t experienced that experience. So I think that’s one thing that’s always been helpful for me is finding women who have been through it and can support you in your transition back. Not to say that men can’t, but I just think, again, having that experience is very helpful.
And then also just being a little bit more flexible. I think once you start having kids, there are moments when you might have to leave in the middle of the day, do a doctor’s appointment, do whatever you have to do, and I think as long as you’re committed, you’re putting in the time, it just might not be that same 9:00 to 5:00 day that you were used to having prior to. I think that is all really helpful in transitioning back to work.
Allison Perlman (06:19):
So what I’m hearing is having a support network around you with people with shared experiences, having flexibility within your workday. Because it’s not that you’re not committed, it’s just that your schedule is shifting, and that just takes a little bit of extra patience and understanding, which you flagged.
Ali Katz (06:37):
Yes, that’s right.
Allison Perlman (06:39):
And that was one of my questions. What can organizations and colleagues do that generally makes the return easier without making assumptions about what a new parent wants from their career?
And an example I’ll give, for example, I think is acknowledging that you’re coming back and you now have a child. You’re not going to be the exact same person you were and operating the exact same way, and just that baseline assumption makes a world of the difference. And one thing, with my daughter, my first child, this is before I went on mat leave. And they did this, when people coming back from mat leave, they would just organize a lunch with other new mothers or other people who have recently come back from mat leave just so we could create a network. And that, in my view, is something small, but it made a world of a difference.
Ali Katz (07:28):
1,000%. And I think that’s huge. I think it can be a very lonely feeling when you come back because you do miss out on things. And I think to your point earlier, a lot of things change in a year’s time. So you never know really what you’re stepping into. So having a manager that creates certain work events to create a sense of camaraderie, I think is really important. So you feel again that you’re part of the team.
And what’s funny, I look at myself before having kids, and I really didn’t appreciate how tough it was to take that step back and come back into an office. And, I didn’t appreciate it. And I remember one experience, watching one of my friends come back, and I could just see it on her face. She was struggling. It’s just tough and you’re tired all the time. You’re balancing, you’re juggling so many different things.
And so again, I think that the more, I hate to say it, but the more women you have in the room to stand up for other women who are going through those experiences, and just be that voice in a room so that when you think about company policy, when you think about culture, you’re considering those aspects of it, I think that’s all really important.
Allison Perlman (08:51):
Culture is such a big aspect of it, too. And like you said, it’s how your company operates around it and how they view returning from mat leave and their policies. And I think culture plays such a huge role. And I love what you said when you’re coming back. You do feel isolated. And so, it’s so important just to have people there just, and welcoming you back to the team. I think just something small like that can make a world of a difference.
Ali Katz (09:18):
Totally. And I think just making the rest of the team understand that that’s important. Because again, before you’ve had kids or when you’re younger or you haven’t been through the experience, you don’t realize how important that is. So just the awareness I think is important. And the more that you’ve got senior management who tries to teach that to their teams, I think the better off the transition will be.
Allison Perlman (09:48):
I agree. I completely agree 100% with that. Shifting gears a little bit, do you think there’s a tension between being able to truly step away during maternity leave and then wanting to maintain the professional momentum that you’ve built?
Ali Katz (10:04):
Yeah. I mean, a thousand percent. And I think my career’s always been so important to me. And I think I really struggle with the idea of being on mat leave and not being connected to everybody in the office and knowing what was going on. I think at a certain point you just have to let it go because, and again, all mat policies are different, but in Canada we have a very flexible one and you do have a year.
I was off for nine months with my first, and ten with my second and there’s no way you’re going to be on top of everything. I think you can’t do it all in that period, and I think giving yourself the flexibility to let go and say, “For this time period, I’m focused on this one thing, which is my kid.”
And you can check in when you want to and when you feel good about it, but not feeling like you’re putting the pressure on yourself to do it. I think that’s important. And again, listen, it is really tough and I think I get… It makes for maybe a bit of a tougher transition going back. But I do think being present and being in the moment when you are doing the maternity leave thing and when you are focusing on your kid that’s a special time too, and I think that you have to give yourself that space to do it.
Allison Perlman (11:31):
Yeah, I think it’s really important to give yourself the space. And I struggled with that a lot too because I’d built up so much momentum beforehand and I said, “Okay, I’m going to go on mat leave and then what’s going to happen to my career? Where am I going to end up?” And so it’s a struggle and it’s a balance. And I think for every individual, it’s different for how involved they want to be or how not involved they want to be during that period, and it’s figuring out what’s best for you. But it is a huge challenge, especially if you’ve been building up that momentum and then deciding, “Okay, am I going to take a step back for a period of time, and what is that going to look like for me, and how is that going to impact my career long-term?” which was also a consideration I was thinking through at the time.
Ali Katz (12:17):
Of course. But it’s funny because now at this stage of the game, my last mat leave ended three years ago so I’ve been back to work full time for the last three years, and I barely remember my mat leaves at this point.
So I know in the moment, it feels like everything and it feels like you’re taking such a big step back and you’re losing that experience and you’re losing that momentum. But if you give yourself that grace and you give yourself that time, and then you go back and you just, again, give yourself that time to get back into the swing of things, before you know it, it will be like it never happened. So I do think there’s that component as well.
And listen, it takes a lot of time, it takes a lot of work when you’re going back because you are kind of playing catch-up. So that’s tough and there’s no way around that. But I think once you climb your way back up and you’re back in that place where you’ve got your mojo again, then you look back and it doesn’t become that big of a thing when you took off that time to spend with your kid.
Allison Perlman (13:29):
Now that I’m several years out, and this leads into my next question, but now that I’m several years out, I wish future me would have told past me, “You’re going to come back to it. You’re going to get back into the swings of it, and then it’ll be a distant memory.” So you do come back to it, and you do get back into the swing, so I resonate with that sentiment. And enjoy it while you can and while you’re with your kid and while you’re off, because you have a long career. And it seems like when you go maternity leave, “This is the end. I built all this momentum.” The momentum continues to be there after. Like you said, it’s hard work, but it’s not the end, which in my brain it was.
Ali Katz (14:09):
Totally. Agreed.
Allison Perlman (14:11):
And so, coming back from mat leave, what do you wish someone had told you before you came back? Or what was some advice you received that you wish you actually listened to? Because I know that for me, people told me many things, and there’s certain things I should have listened to.
Ali Katz (14:26):
Totally, and I think a lot of people, just based on my personality, assumed, “Oh, you’re going to go crazy when you’re away from the office. You’re going to go crazy when you’re on mat leave.”
I guess the advice that I wish I was given and that I would give others is try your best to enjoy it, because you only… And I know this sounds so cheesy, but you really only have that time. That’s such a short period of time when your kids are that small. And I think it’s an important time to spend with them and to bond with them and to really be present with them. And it goes so quickly, and before you know, snap of your fingers, your kids are so much older, and they don’t like spending time with you anymore and yada, yada. And you have all of that time to focus only on your career.
And so I just think that, try to enjoy it, try to take the space, and I guess stay focused on the big picture, which is that you’ve got many years of career left in front of you. And this one moment is not going to be in any way, it will not define your career. So just keep that in mind, stay present, and then when you get back to the office, give it all you got.
Allison Perlman (15:45):
And one piece of advice which you actually gave earlier, which I wish I had received or had listened to, was to be compassionate with myself when returning. Because it is a process and, like you said, you’re playing catch-up, but with time you get back. Yeah, I like how you said you get your mojo back. It’s true. It happens. But to be compassionate with yourself and just to be present, and it takes time.
And so thank you so much. This was such a fun and interesting conversation, so thank you so much for joining me, Ali.
Ali Katz (16:18):
Thank you so much, Allison. I really enjoyed it.
Copyright, Troutman Pepper Locke LLP. These recorded materials are designed for educational purposes only. This podcast is not legal advice and does not create an attorney-client relationship. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individual participants. Troutman does not make any representations or warranties, express or implied, regarding the contents of this podcast. Information on previous case results does not guarantee a similar future result. Users of this podcast may save and use the podcast only for personal or other non-commercial, educational purposes. No other use, including, without limitation, reproduction, retransmission or editing of this podcast may be made without the prior written permission of Troutman Pepper Locke. If you have any questions, please contact us at troutman.com.
DISCLAIMER: This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence technology and may contain inaccuracies or errors. The transcript is provided “as is,” with no warranty as to the accuracy or reliability. Please listen to the podcast for complete and accurate content. You may contact us to ask questions or to provide feedback if you believe that something is inaccurately transcribed.
